Elocution

[s***@yahoo.com]

Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton". I remember being in a Petrol station late one
night, when in came an 'outsider' who asked how to get to Br-ugh-ton -
there was an excess of joviality from the assembled taxi drivers, and
once he left (with directions) one commented "Br-ughton - what language
was he speaking, ha ha ha"

It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

[soup]

Post by s***@yahoo.com
Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton". I remember being in a Petrol station late one
night, when in came an 'outsider' who asked how to get to Br-ugh-ton -
there was an excess of joviality from the assembled taxi drivers, and
once he left (with directions) one commented "Br-ughton - what
language was he speaking, ha ha ha"
It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

Though not a Glaswegian I am a bit of a keelie so would go for the broat
rather than the braw, I'd pronounce it Broat-n, were the broat rhymes
with the 'Scottish' way of saying bought i.e. boat,

I'd always thought of sheugh being pronounced shoe, but then I am an
east coaster so know not of your (TINY) fancy Glaswegian ways. :o)

[Andrew MacCormack]

I often wondered if the fact that the Hawes pub and pier in Queensferry
is on New "Halls" Road is because the person making the road signs/maps
mis-heard the name?

[Robert Inder]

Subject: Elocution
Date: 22 Sep 2005 00:30:14 -0700
Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton".

I'm afraid I don't know how you think I/everyone will pronounce "ugh".

I've most often seen it use as some kind of expression of disgust.
or as some kind of cartoon-style cave-man grunt.

But I'm not sure either has a standard pronunciation.

As in "hugh", so that Broughton will sound like Brewton?

It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

I'm not a phonetician, so I don't know how to refer to the sound at
the end of "loch" or "Bach".

But "shoe" with one of those on the end is the only pronunciation of
Drumsheugh that I've ever heard.

You are implying that this is wrong, but I'm afraid I at least have
not grasped what you are saying is right...

Robert.

--
|_) _ |_ _ ._ |- | So what? It's easier for me, so I'll do it!
| \(_)|_)(-'| |_ |
deadspam.com is a spamtrap. | > > What's wrong with top posting?
Use bcs.org.uk instead. | > It makes it hard to see comments in context.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by Robert Inder
I'm not a phonetician, so I don't know how to refer to the sound at
the end of "loch" or "Bach".
But "shoe" with one of those on the end is the only pronunciation of
Drumsheugh that I've ever heard.

It's quite common (especially in Edinburgh) for any difficult 'gh' or
'ch' sounds to be converted in such a manner, since there is no such
phoneme in the English language. Most Scots, if they're not doing it
themselves, politely tolerate it.

This is further confused by the fact that in Irish, the 'h' in 'gh'
makes the 'g' silent; of course Scots isn't anything remotely likely
Irish Gaelic, but hey ho..

Post by Robert Inder
You are implying that this is wrong, but I'm afraid I at least have
not grasped what you are saying is right...

I think he's highlighting the fact that there isn't a standardised way
to pronounce Scots words or place names; you can only glean from
example. We're not really to blame, any chance of a Caledonian
dictionary was quickly snuffed out in 1707..

Angus

[Ian Johnston]

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:56 UTC, Robert Inder <***@deadspam.com>
wrote:

: But "shoe" with one of those on the end is the only pronunciation of
: Drumsheugh that I've ever heard.

That's where I work. We pronounce it "Drumshooch".

Ian


--

[a l l y]

Post by s***@yahoo.com
Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton".

There's only a slight difference in vowel sound between the Edinburgh
pronunciation of Broughton and the Cumbrian one. Near where I live now in NW
Cumbria there is a group of villages called Great Broughton, Little
Broughton and Broughton Cross. The village of Broughton in the borders is
also pronounced the same way IIRC. You would sort of expect the Scots
version of the name to have a sort of cough in the middle, wouldn't you? But
it hasn't.

Post by s***@yahoo.com
It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

I haven't heard anyone say the name Drumsheugh for years, but having spent
most of my life in the city I'd pronounce it with a proper Scots '-ch' sound
at the end. Are you saying people don't do that any more? Sheesh... (or
should I say sheech...?)

ally

[Derek F]

Post by a l l y

Post by s***@yahoo.com
Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton".

There's only a slight difference in vowel sound between the Edinburgh
pronunciation of Broughton and the Cumbrian one. Near where I live now in
NW Cumbria there is a group of villages called Great Broughton, Little
Broughton and Broughton Cross. The village of Broughton in the borders is
also pronounced the same way IIRC. You would sort of expect the Scots
version of the name to have a sort of cough in the middle, wouldn't you?
But it hasn't.

Post by s***@yahoo.com
It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

I haven't heard anyone say the name Drumsheugh for years, but having spent
most of my life in the city I'd pronounce it with a proper Scots '-ch'
sound at the end. Are you saying people don't do that any more? Sheesh...
(or should I say sheech...?)
ally

I was just about to mention the Cumbrian pronunciation. I used to work with
a guy called Broughton from that area and he used the same pronounciatio as
I did but our Southern English workmates always tried to say it differently.
Derek.

[Sam Wilson]

Post by a l l y

Post by s***@yahoo.com
Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton".

There's only a slight difference in vowel sound between the Edinburgh
pronunciation of Broughton and the Cumbrian one. Near where I live now in NW
Cumbria there is a group of villages called Great Broughton, Little
Broughton and Broughton Cross. The village of Broughton in the borders is
also pronounced the same way IIRC. You would sort of expect the Scots
version of the name to have a sort of cough in the middle, wouldn't you? But
it hasn't.

All the Borders and native Edinburgh people I've heard pronouncing the
name, either for the Borders village or the district of Edinburgh, say
Broton. The area of Salford, near where I come from, is pronounced
Brawton. It confused me when I first came here.

Post by a l l y

Post by s***@yahoo.com
It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

I haven't heard anyone say the name Drumsheugh for years, but having spent
most of my life in the city I'd pronounce it with a proper Scots '-ch' sound
at the end. Are you saying people don't do that any more? Sheesh... (or
should I say sheech...?)

And Buccleuch? How do the Dukes pronounce their own name? :-)

Sam

[Terry Fergusson]

Post by Sam Wilson
All the Borders and native Edinburgh people I've heard pronouncing the
name, either for the Borders village or the district of Edinburgh, say
Broton. The area of Salford, near where I come from, is pronounced
Brawton. It confused me when I first came here.

The one that got me when I moved down here was Granton, which is what those
of us from the NE call Grantown-upon-Spey.

Still there's always the good old Cockbridge to Tomintoul road which,
apparently, was closed at the weekend (so no change there then).

Strange how my spell checker wanted to change Tomintoul; to either 'Ominous'
or 'Tomato'.

[Celtic Heart]

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by a l l y

Post by s***@yahoo.com
Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton".

There's only a slight difference in vowel sound between the Edinburgh
pronunciation of Broughton and the Cumbrian one. Near where I live now in NW
Cumbria there is a group of villages called Great Broughton, Little
Broughton and Broughton Cross. The village of Broughton in the borders is
also pronounced the same way IIRC. You would sort of expect the Scots
version of the name to have a sort of cough in the middle, wouldn't you? But
it hasn't.

All the Borders and native Edinburgh people I've heard pronouncing the
name, either for the Borders village or the district of Edinburgh, say
Broton. The area of Salford, near where I come from, is pronounced
Brawton. It confused me when I first came here.

Post by a l l y

Post by s***@yahoo.com
It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

I haven't heard anyone say the name Drumsheugh for years, but having spent
most of my life in the city I'd pronounce it with a proper Scots '-ch' sound
at the end. Are you saying people don't do that any more? Sheesh... (or
should I say sheech...?)

And Buccleuch? How do the Dukes pronounce their own name? :-)
Sam

It could be worse, you've no idea how many times I heard people (even the
illustrious BBC) mangle Lough Neagh.

And for the record it's pronounced loch (same way you lot pronounce it) nay.

S

[Terry Fergusson]

Post by Celtic Heart
It could be worse, you've no idea how many times I heard people (even the
illustrious BBC) mangle Lough Neagh.
And for the record it's pronounced loch (same way you lot pronounce it) nay.
S

Well, I suppose it is only the largest body of fresh water in the UK, not as
if it's important after all...

[s***@yahoo.com]

I think if you're posh (or think you are) having the scots word for a
ditch or sluice (or the more common bottom crack) as part of your
lovely west end flat street address means you'll change the
pronunciation to imply it's not got the same meaning.

[Zimmy]

Post by s***@yahoo.com
Talking of incomers pronunciation (in pheasant spotting)of Carlton,
I've never quite worked out how Edinburghers' pronounce Broughton as
"Brawton" rather than how it should be pronounced (if you're scottish
at least) "Br-ugh-ton". I remember being in a Petrol station late one
night, when in came an 'outsider' who asked how to get to Br-ugh-ton -
there was an excess of joviality from the assembled taxi drivers, and
once he left (with directions) one commented "Br-ughton - what language
was he speaking, ha ha ha"
It reminded me of the BBC scotland news pronunciation of Malletsheugh
(on the extreme south side of Glasgow) as Mallet-shoe - maybe they
thought saying the word Sheugh was too crude for the 6:30 news (as do
most of the residents of Drumsheugh Gardens in the 'burgh)

I reckon the correct pronunciation for any place is how the locals
pronounce it.

As an "Edinburger" of some 30 years:
I've never heard any Edinburgers call it "Braw-ton", only "Broh-ton"
Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"
However Saughton is "S-och-ton" (as in "och aye") or "Sockton" but never
"Sawton" as pronounced by Ewan MacGregor in Trainspotting.
Balgreen is "Boll-green" and not "Bahl-Green"
Carricknowe is "Carrick-now" and not "Carrick-noe"
and of course Sighthill is "Shite-hill" (but only if you're Sean Connery)
;-)

Z

[soup]

Post by Zimmy
and of course Sighthill is "Shite-hill" (but only if you're Sean
Connery) ;-)

LOL

[Phil Wilson]

Post by Zimmy
I've never heard any Edinburgers call it "Braw-ton", only "Broh-ton"
Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"

What kind of Edinburgers? It's always been 'Brawton' and has been
since my Dad went to school there in the 1920s at least. And he also
worked in Drumshooch Gardens, which is the correct pronunciation, and
again always has been.

And its GULLANE, not 'GILLIN' (rant over).

Cheers,

Phil.

[Mine's a pint]

Phil Wilson wrote:
|| Zimmy wrote:
||| As an "Edinburger" of some 30 years:
||| I've never heard any Edinburgers call it "Braw-ton", only "Broh-ton"
||| Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"
||
|| What kind of Edinburgers? It's always been 'Brawton' and has been
|| since my Dad went to school there in the 1920s at least. And he also
|| worked in Drumshooch Gardens, which is the correct pronunciation, and
|| again always has been.
||
|| And its GULLANE, not 'GILLIN' (rant over).
||
|| Cheers,
||
|| Phil.

hahaha, hit the wrong button again and Phil got and e-mail ..

anyway ..

GULLANE is righ.

Brawton ? naw, dinna think so, I went there as a bairn,
and Drumshooch has asways been shoe .....

but I grew up in Jamicia Street, the middle of the "New Town", so guess I
could be wrong ...

also Scotland was known for speaking better english than the english for a
while, but that's another story why ....

I am glad to see that this is in the past

[Mike Dickson]

Post by Mine's a pint
but I grew up in Jamicia Street, the middle of the "New Town", so guess I
could be wrong ...

*What* street did you grow up in?

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

[Zimmy]

Post by Zimmy
I've never heard any Edinburgers call it "Braw-ton", only "Broh-ton"
Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"

What kind of Edinburgers? It's always been 'Brawton' and has been since my
Dad went to school there in the 1920s at least. And he also worked in
Drumshooch Gardens, which is the correct pronunciation, and again always
has been.

I can only go what everyone who comes from Edinburgh that I've spoken to in
the last 30 years calls it.
In the 1920s maybe they still spoke 'auld scots' or something? :-)

I've only ever heard English or non-locals call it Brawton and like the taxi
drivers, never heard "Bruchton"!

"Drum-shoe" and "Drum-shoo" are the same to me.

Another good one I've heard is "Peniqweek" (Penicuik).

Z

[Toom Tabard]

Post by Zimmy
I've never heard any Edinburgers call it "Braw-ton", only "Broh-ton"
Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"

What kind of Edinburgers? It's always been 'Brawton' and has been since my
Dad went to school there in the 1920s at least. And he also worked in
Drumshooch Gardens, which is the correct pronunciation, and again always
has been.

In my 59 years in Edinburgh, I've always known it a "Broh-ton". My sister
went to
"Broh-ton" school in the 1950's. That is not to say that there is only one
pronunciation;
only that there are other people (and many of them) who don't use your
pronunciation. "Braw-ton", like Mawningsighed, sounds to me a bit fur coat
and lacking undergarments.

Toom

[soup]

Post by Toom Tabard
"Braw-ton", like Mawningsighed, sounds to me a bit fur
coat and lacking undergarments.

and "sex" is what coal comes in.

[soup]

Post by Phil Wilson
What kind of Edinburgers?

This kind

Post by Phil Wilson
It's always been 'Brawton' and has been
since my Dad went to school there in the 1920s at least. And he also
worked in Drumshooch Gardens, which is the correct pronunciation, and
again always has been.

I have always pronounced it Drum-shoe.

Post by Phil Wilson
And its GULLANE, not 'GILLIN' (rant over).

I have always said Gullin not Gullane or Gillin.
--
This post contains no hidden meanings, no implications and certainly no
hidden agendas so it should be taken at face value. The wrong words
may be used this is due to my limitations with the English language .

[Mike Dickson]

Post by Zimmy
I've never heard any Edinburgers call it "Braw-ton", only "Broh-ton"

You'll hear both.

Post by Zimmy
Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"

More like 'Drum-shoo'. Some people append a slight '-ch' (as in 'loch')
to the end.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

[Toom Tabard]

Post by Mike Dickson

Post by Zimmy
I've never heard any Edinburgers call it "Braw-ton", only "Broh-ton"

You'll hear both.

Post by Zimmy
Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"

More like 'Drum-shoo'. Some people append a slight '-ch' (as in 'loch')
to the end.

Agreed. You'll hear both on that one too.. As a native of Edinburgh, I know
it as
"Drum-shooch".

Toom

[Ronald Raygun]

Post by Mike Dickson

Post by Zimmy
Drumsheugh is "Drum-shoe"

More like 'Drum-shoo'. Some people append a slight '-ch' (as in 'loch')
to the end.

What's the difference between shoe and shoo? They sound the same to me.

[Mike Dickson]

Post by Ronald Raygun

Post by Mike Dickson
More like 'Drum-shoo'. Some people append a slight '-ch' (as in 'loch')
to the end.

What's the difference between shoe and shoo? They sound the same to me.

The first -could- be interpreted as 'show'.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland